[VSK5] BoatParam.xml

admiral · Post by **admiral** » 29 May 2007, 13:14

It's not my model... you'll have to ask Tom and or Nik at vskfun.. I only try to figure the boatparams, as that seams to help most. I figure the more brains are working on figuring those boatparams and finding trying new ideas with them, the faster all vsk4 boats can/will be ported and the easire it becomes for the individuell boat developer to work, so i share what i find and think here. That's all.

cheers.

Rich oot1960 · Post by **Rich oot1960** » 30 May 2007, 00:21

Thx Admiral

You are dead right about the xml files, that's why we have to put as much info here to help all!
Good luck on working out the spi parts.
I only have to worry about 1 sail!
With the Negative heel in HeelAngle I have found that using Sunburns & Philippe idea the Game crashes upon reload BoatParams

So I'm now going to try GBRs way to see if that works.

maitai · Post by **maitai** » 30 May 2007, 05:33

Rich oot1960 wrote:the Game crashes upon reload BoatParams

That is not normal... Can you remove one by one all the curves to see which part make this... in order for the science to continue to move on

?

Rich oot1960 · Post by **Rich oot1960** » 30 May 2007, 08:00

Well this is what I put in to get to Crash!
<HeelAngleCurves>
<Curve>
<Xs Conv="DegToRad">0 16 38 48 60 120 160 180</Xs>
<Ys Conv="DegToRad">0 -5 -14 -16 -16 -14 -8 0</Ys>
</Curve>

<HeelAngleCoefCurves> (just showing 90)
<Curve2>
<Xs Conv="DegToRad"> 90 </Xs>
<Curves>
<Curve>
<Xs Conv="DegToRad">-45 0 30.3</Xs>
<Ys>6 1 1.5</Ys>
<Curve>
</Curves>
</Curve2>

Anyway I used GBRs Idea & after a lot of mucking around ( It doesn't seem to be a simple Multiplication Formula) Got the heel to work.
But Alas I can get the Moth to capsize but because the Game treats it like a Trimaran it ends up on its side Floating in the air.

I'm now wanting to move the Wake back but not having any Luck.
Any ideas I've tried <RelativePos>

Thx Rich.

maitai · Post by **maitai** » 30 May 2007, 08:32

The game crash is not normal. I suspect you have something wrong in the params, although I cannot see anything wrong in the portion you posted. You should try to use vskboatimport2 and see if you get any better error message when importing (if you still don't have a solid you can use the samplebot solid just for test purposes).

Orma capsizes, and it is a trimaran...

I don't understand your wake problems. I saw the picture but by moving <relativepos> it should work... no clue. Again you should try with the regular importer, and not only with reload params in order to see what happens.

If someone knows how to force a 2D plane mesh to always shows it's surface whatever the camera angle (i.e. to orient itself in order to stay visible), then the light quest could eventually end...

Rich oot1960 · Post by **Rich oot1960** » 30 May 2007, 08:40

GBR13697 · Post by **GBR13697** » 30 May 2007, 09:27

Rich
Pleased you are having some success with the heel.

The wake position should be set in RelativePosition:
<RelativePos>0.000000 0.000000 1.700000</RelativePos>
The 1.7 at the end is the Fore and Aft position, and indicates the distance in metres forward of the mid-point.

The capsize position is logical really. The hydrofoil effect is achieved by treating the boat as the windward hull of a multihull, so that it lifts as the boat heels. Unfortunately the capsized position of the windward hull of a multihull, is exactly as shown in the pics!.
GBR13697

Rich oot1960 · Post by **Rich oot1960** » 30 May 2007, 09:38

Thx Nigel,
Yes the heel thing is logical - Now!
But I had my suspicions about it B4 I did it.
That heel thing was funny though not as logical as you think!
Want to see some strange looking HeelAngleCoefs Polars?
I'll gave that <RelativePos> a go again but no nothing seems to change no matter what I do,but I have a Hunch that it may actually go back to that I didn't have the Moth 3ds file
( Lost & not found yet, Philippe could you ask Planning if he has a copy of it? )
I had to use the Sample boat 3ds to import MothParams originally.
Maybe this has something to do with the wake prob?
Stop Press!
I used the Original VSK4 Moth file & refresh BoatParams & yes it fixed it!

Rich.

GBR13697 · Post by **GBR13697** » 30 May 2007, 13:22

Rich
I'm glad someone is making progress - more than I am. The Heel method should enable you to make the Moth work more logically. It used to heel more to windward the harder you sheeted, and come upright when the sail was eased. It can't really be like that.
You should be able to arrange it so that it heels just enough to windward when the sail is sheeted correctly, but goes more upright or heels to leeward when sheeted too hard. Conversely, it could heel further to windward if not sheeted hard enough.
GBR13697

admiral · Post by **admiral** » 30 May 2007, 15:40

<Ys Conv="DegToRad">0 -5 -14 -16 -16 -14 -8 0</Ys>

Can't test this right now but what's with this?

<HeelAngleCurves>
.............................

<Curve>
<Xs Conv="DegToRad">0 16 38 48 60 120 160 180</Xs>
<Ys Conv="DegToRad">0 355 346 344 344 346 352 0</Ys>
</Curve>

............................
</HeelAngleCurves>

CANKnot · Post by **CANKnot** » 31 May 2007, 19:45

Well this is what I put in to get to Crash!
<HeelAngleCurves>
<Curve>
<Xs Conv="DegToRad">0 16 38 48 60 120 160 180</Xs>
<Ys Conv="DegToRad">0 -5 -14 -16 -16 -14 -8 0</Ys>
</Curve>

<HeelAngleCoefCurves> (just showing 90)
<Curve2>
<Xs Conv="DegToRad"> 90 </Xs>
<Curves>
<Curve>
<Xs Conv="DegToRad">-45 0 30.3</Xs>
<Ys>6 1 1.5</Ys>
<Curve>
</Curves>
</Curve2>

I suspect this is due to invalid XML. You are missing the end HeelAngleCurves tag and the '/' in a Curve end tag. Also, if you compare the structure of your example with the default BoatParam.xml file, or the official AccBoatParam.xml file, you will notice that you are missing several elements that are included in the other files.

The content model for the HeelAngleCurves is (seems to be):

HeelAngleCurves (Xs, Curves)
Curves (Curve)+
Curve (Xs, Ys)

and HeelAngleCoefCurves is:

HeelAngleCoefCurves (Xs, Curves2)
Curves2 (Curve2)+
Curve2 (Xs, Curves)

So, your example should look (something) like:

Code: Select all

<HeelAngleCurves>	
  <Xs Conv="KnotToMs">999</Xs>
  <Curves>
    <Curve>
      <Xs Conv="DegToRad">0 16 38 48 60 120 160 180</Xs>
      <Ys Conv="DegToRad">0 -5 -14 -16 -16 -14 -8 0</Ys>
    </Curve>
  </Curves>
</HeelAngleCurves>
<HeelAngleCoefCurves> 
  <Xs>999</Xs>
  <Curves2>
    <Curve2>
      <Xs Conv="DegToRad"> 90 </Xs>
      <Curves>
        <Curve>
          <Xs Conv="DegToRad">-45 0 30.3</Xs>
          <Ys>6 1 1.5</Ys>
        </Curve>
      </Curves>
    </Curve2> 
  </Curves2>
</HeelAngleCoefCurves>

Hope this helps,
Keith

GBR13697 · Post by **GBR13697** » 01 Jun 2007, 09:58

Anything with invalid XML causes the Boat Importer to fail. If it gets throgh the Boat Importer, it is likely to be something else that causes a crash.
GBR13697

Rich oot1960 · Post by **Rich oot1960** » 01 Jun 2007, 10:06

That is True Nigel,
But not if you are just using Reload Boat Param in editor.
It crashed upon clicking on Reload.
I didn't have to change the elements in that file only the 6 in the Ys section,
Seems like it couldn't handle the 6 x -16 for some reason.

admiral · Post by **admiral** » 04 Jun 2007, 13:13

Maybe we can agree on clearly marking XML- snippets aka their beginning and their end.

I Suppose that anyone who fiddles with the boatparams.xml already took it up to themselfs to get familiar with XML syntax... so i assume that any problems discussed here are NOT because of errors in syntax, like opening and closing tags, etc.

Please read up on XML if need be and do so before doing any cut and paste from this thread....

Rich oot1960 · Post by **Rich oot1960** » 06 Jun 2007, 05:41

With my BoatParam.xml file I was using Validate as I type.

Sometimes as with my crash error this was not an error within the xml file it seemed that the game struggled with what I was trying to achieve.
I ended up finding that I could not get the result I needed using negative figures through the majority of the HeelAngleCurves when using HeelAngleCoefCurves to multiply and get the desired result.

In the end I used GBRs 1 degree method without any problems. ( After trying both methods twice)
I think this will not be a problem for conventional boats as they do not use negative heal very much @ all.

Using Oxygen.xml also had a good tool called Compare files which does what it says & also allows you to swap particular differences between files & it highlight any errors as well.