Fireball Mark 2 Beta - Testers wanted!

Virtual Skipper 4 offer the possibility to import own boat 3D models.<br>
3D artists and players can now meet here to share models and advices.<br>
Virtual Skipper 4 offre la possibilité d'importer vos propres modèles 3D de bateaux.<br>
Les artistes 3D et les joueurs peuvent maintenant se réunir ici pour partager leurs modèles et conseils.

GBR13697
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Fireball Mark 2 Beta - Testers wanted!

Post by GBR13697 »

I have been making a few improvements to the Fireball, but I would like some testers to give an opinion on one new feature.
The built in Nadeo boats continue moving slowly forward, even when head to wind. This prevents them losing steerage, and means they never get stuck in irons, but is not very realistic.
Some of the custom boats move astern when head to wind, but there is always a problem when they reach the angle where boatspeed transitions between reverse and forward. Speed at this point is nil, and it is easy to get stuck here because there is no steerage way.
The new Fireball has no angle where speed is zero, but there is still a "trick" to the transition between reverse and forward. Essentially, this involves some good old-fashioned "tiller waggling". Dinghy sailors will know what I mean by this - own up, you have all done it! If you point the boat closer to the wind than 25TWA you will begin to move astern (backwards). Note that the tiller (steering) will work in reverse. The aim is to center the tiller just as the boat reaches 25TWA, and then steer normally to bear away as the boat starts to move forwards. If you do not centre the tiller at the right time, the boat will start to move forward with the tiller still reversed, and will once again luff up and go under the magic 25TWA. If this happens just center the tiller, and then give it one or two gentle nudges until you return to 25TWA. The boat will then move forward again, and you can bear away steering normally. Make sure you have the sails sheeted hard in.
This sounds a bit complicated initially, but it is fairly easy in practice, and you soon get the hang of it. The question is - is it a worthwhile feature for realism, or is it just too much trouble? Would sailors just prefer the Nadeo way of always moving forward, even when head to wind?
There are a few more changes, detailed in the Read Me that comes with the installation.
Let me know what you all think, and thanks for helping. Thanks also to Maitai and ShaunRSA for assistance with this update, and to McDeadcat for making great skins.
The download is at http://www.tammyowl.btinternet.co.uk/Fi ... lMark2.zip
(If you have any kids, give them a look at our owl's website while you are visiting! http://www.tammyowl.btinternet.co.uk )
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Post by WillGBR »

bad news the spinni doesnt work!! bad luck
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Post by GBR13697 »

What was the problem WillGBR? The spinnaker on the Mark 1 did stick in the hoisted position occasionally, but I have tested ad nauseam and I thought this was cured.
Just to be absolutely sure, are you positive you were testing the Mark 2 when the problem arose? If you have both versions installed it is very easy to click through to the wrong boat when starting the test race, and you might never notice the difference when sailing them.
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Post by Seb_GBR »

well it works fine for me, tried spin about 12 times, and the reversing when your head to wind is very realistic, its good
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Post by Rs200 »

Yup, as a dinghy sailor myself, I really like the effect of gettiing stuck in irons and tiller waggling out of it. It may take a bit for players not from dinghy backgrounds to get used to though.

it handles nicely upwind, and is quick downwind. Only criticism is that isn't it quicker, in light airs to square run the 'Ball? Some guys at our club do that when it's light, seems to work. Though I suppose it would be almsot impossible to recreate in the game- getting the transition strenght from apparent wind sailing to just running right.

Overall great effort Nigel, well done, great to be able to sail a dinghy.

Will there be a template coming out with this release?
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Post by WillGBR »

i tried the mark 2 spin about 8 times and no power from spin but its in the right place! are you working on a new boat at all? cheers
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Post by GBR13697 »

WillGBR - I'm glad it goes up and comes down OK. You had me worried for a minute - I though the "stuck halliard" problem from the Mark 1 had come back. Not sure what you mean by no power - it won't heel so much downwind, but you should get a considerable increase in speed over the genoa on the right headings. The best VMG angle downwind depends on the wind strength - go more downwind in more wind, and head up in lulls.
The Fireball was a bit of a personal project, inspired by the VSK4 Laser. I thought VSK needed a spinnaker dinghy, and I sail a Fireball myself. I am not working on anything myself, but I am trying to offer help when needed to the VSK-AUS guys with their skiff project.

RS200 - Nice for dinghy sailors to have some tricks for a change isn't it!
We do sometimes run dead downwind in very light airs, if we can keep the spinnaker filled, but winds this light usually mean heading up to fill the kite. If the kite won't fill at all, it is faster to drop it and go dead downwind with 2 sails. We are only talking 2k or less wind here, and that does not happen in VSK. In F3 we would be gybing downwind, and going deeper as the wind increases.
You should find a template in the VSK4/Templates folder. Templates are not brilliant but do the job. McDeadcat seems to have managed OK.
Thanks for the feedback guys - Much appreciated!
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Post by WillGBR »

What i mean by no power is when it comes up no speed increase no heel just like it isnt up.

have you seen the skiff yet doeas it look good lol cheers

would it be hard to make a merlin rocket, or make the laser heel lioke real life!?
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Post by GBR13697 »

Will
There is definitely a difference in the vpp parameter file, and on the course (at least in my experience). I did tone down the heel with the spinnaker, because it was impossible to keep it anywhere near upright in a F7. Of course, there won't be many Fireballs flying a kite in a F7 anyway! But I will have another look at it.
I have only seen the hull of the skiff - it is still in the early stages I think. One problem will be the kite, because there is no model for an assymetric in VSK4. The spin is totally unsuitable, and an adapted Code0 doesn't look very realistic. However, it is probably the only option.
A Merlin should not be any harder than the Fireball - fancy trying your hand at 3d modelling?
The problem with heel is that is largely fixed by the game, and the game is built around yachts that don't move unless they are heeled 17 degrees. You can keep them upright, but you lose the sheeting dynamics. Or you can heel 17 deg to windward like the Moth!
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Post by WillGBR »

hi GBR

i would love to challange myserlf and create a merlin but i dont know how to could you spare some time and give me some links to get me started

thanks Will
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Post by WillGBR »

isnt the melges assymetric?
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Post by Rs200 »

In real life, yes. in the game, no. VSK can't model assy spinnys.
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Post by Seb_GBR »

whats the difference. in the game?
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Post by GBR13697 »

The windward corner or clew of the spinnaker can move to windward of the centre line, and the sail gybes by moving around the bow of the boat. An assymetric is a different shape, and the same corner or tack is always secured to the end of the bowsprit, on the centre line. It gybes like a big genoa, and inverts itself so that what was the inside becomes the outside.
The Code0 behaves like an assymetric, but is still not the right shape.

Re modelling Will. Start out by downloading Freeship (free program), and play with it for a while. You would ultimately need 3DS MAX, but you can make most of a boat in Freeship. I would also recommend downloading the Boat Importer from Virtual Winds. The rtf document that comes with it gives a good idea of what is needed. It looks very intimidaing at first, but I managed to finish a boat from a zero ability starting point, so anyone can do it.
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Post by WillGBR »

o my god im frustrated i keep clicking on download freeship the it goes to another thing staying download here and another n anothe all bit dif, plz can you give me a link to the things i need thanks
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