[VSK4] Laser-Standard - 2nd version from Tom

Rs200 · Post by **Rs200** » 23 Oct 2006, 18:40

Hi Nick,

My e-mail is currently broken, so I can't send you the screenshots I made for this version. I'll say what i think of the boat here:

Basically- very good! A great improvement from the first, and it feels very much like a real Laser, upwind performance is very good.

Downwind is also accurate with downwind being the best VMG. one visual thing I wouolld change for downwind is that the boat is fastest when the sail is eased so that the boom is at right angles to the boat (when you look from overhead) In the gaem the boat is fastest when the boom isn't quite at right angles, also the leech is a liitle too open- but I think that amy be the compromise needed to get the accurate upwind sail shap in the boat.

Is it possible to get windward heel? Ie: negative heel? If it is then it would be very realistic if downwind (TWA 170 -180) the boat heeled over to windward by 8-10 degrees. This is done in real life as it is faster.

Overall thanks to everyone involved for such a great improvement, the sails and mast look very good now as well, and thanks for listening to ffeedback

just the few minor visual tweaks in downwind that I mentioned.
I'll try to email you tonight/tomorrow if I can get my email fixed.

Kwasi · Post by **Kwasi** » 23 Oct 2006, 19:04

about the negative heel:
No, that is not foreseen in vsk as far as I understood the heel parameters.
About the reaching course, it would be good to have screenshots that show what you mean. I have some difficulties in understanding you there.

all_ratone · Post by **all_ratone** » 24 Oct 2006, 13:52

I can't install the laser nor the X-79...
My pc doesn't recognize the file type of the installer
Any tips?
thanks

all_ratone · Post by **all_ratone** » 24 Oct 2006, 14:12

Problem solved

The boat looks really nice! the sail shape is a little odd.. but that's ok because you can't bend the mast in the game :p
Just one thing that doesn't seem very well... a laser is faster broad reaching, and in the game the boat is faster downwind, wich isn't true in real life...
haven't had the time to try it better, but i will

good sailing

Kwasi · Post by **Kwasi** » 24 Oct 2006, 15:11

all_ratone wrote:Problem solved

How?

Just one thing that doesn't seem very well... a laser is faster broad reaching, and in the game the boat is faster downwind, wich isn't true in real life...

Try to be more precise.
What angle is broad reaching? And is "faster" ment in regard of BS or VMG?

Hvalborg · Post by **Hvalborg** » 24 Oct 2006, 18:45

all_ratone wrote:I can't install the laser nor the X-79...
My pc doesn't recognize the file type of the installer
Any tips?
thanks

Where to find the x-79 ? Please help NOWWWWW

I have been waiting for this to happen, my prayers have been heard!

never thought they would

Hvalborg

Best regards

Kwasi · Post by **Kwasi** » 24 Oct 2006, 19:30

Hvalborg wrote:Where to find the x-79 ? Please help NOWWWWW

Instead of keeping fingers on your "W"-Key, you could also browse THIS forum

Check out:
http://www.virtualskipper-lejeu.com/for ... php?t=2029

Rs200 · Post by **Rs200** » 24 Oct 2006, 19:52

I like this model, good feedback at vsk-aus, handles very well. Pass on congratulations to Tom please Nick

Kwasi · Post by **Kwasi** » 24 Oct 2006, 19:55

Rs200 wrote:I like this model, good feedback at vsk-aus, handles very well. Pass on congratulations to Tom please Nick

I already did

all_ratone · Post by **all_ratone** » 24 Oct 2006, 19:56

[/quote]Try to be more precise.
What angle is broad reaching? And is "faster" ment in regard of BS or VMG?[/quote]

I mean that when sailing a laser (i´m not sure of the angles because i don't use a compass) between 90 and 140 twa the boat speed is much faster than it is downwind.

Kwasi · Post by **Kwasi** » 24 Oct 2006, 19:58

ok, but the question is, wether the vmg is faster as well.
I agree, that that might not perfectly reproduced in the laser model, but that is mainly due to the surfing abiltity. If we would integrate faster BS at reaching angles, the Laser would start to fly

Rs200 · Post by **Rs200** » 24 Oct 2006, 21:22

Going on a downwind leg the vmg will be faster than when broad reaching (135 degrees TWA0. But the speed will be better when at TWA 135. This may be difficult to reproduce without messing up the downwind seetings that are currently very good.

Kwasi · Post by **Kwasi** » 24 Oct 2006, 21:28

well, if that is truly missing it is a pity when sailing olympic triangles or other not only up-/downwind courses.

GBR13697 · Post by **GBR13697** » 25 Oct 2006, 09:40

As I said in my previous post, reaching speeds are higher, but not so high that the downwind VMG becomes higher than running at 179TWA. The polar diagram will be quite flat at the bottom, but still deepest at 180TWA. This is in contrast to boats that gybe downwind (ie - make better downwind VMG by reaching than running) where the polar diagram is butterfly shaped.
If possible, it would make the boat more dynamic if it were more responsive to sail setting. At present, the Laser needs to be sheeted hard in upwind in almost all winds. A wide range of sail angle seems to make very little difference downwind. A dinghy sail needs to be trimmed continually to balance power etc, and it would be nice if this could be reflected.
I have been having a look at the VSK parameter files myself in the hope that I might be of some help. I have made some progress, but they are hard to understand when most of the available guidance is in French!
I have made sense of the polar speed files, but I am still struggling with the others.
GBR13697

GBR13697 · Post by **GBR13697** » 25 Oct 2006, 17:02

I have been playing with the VSK parameter files to see what they do. The Heelcoeff file can be edited so that the boat sails in a much more upright way or, conversley, heels more.
Unfortunately, VSK appears to assume that the most efficient heel for any boat is around 17 deg. Manual sheeting works better than auto because you can adjust sails to keep 17 deg. Consequently, if the Heelcoeff file is adjusted to reduce maximum heel to less than 17 deg, you lose some speed and the manual sheeting dynamic because the boat will never reach VSK's idea of the most efficient trim. Upwind you just trim hard in, and downwind trim harder than is realistic.
The HeelSpeed parameter can be adjusted to make the heel more sensitive to sheeting, but the over-riding Heelcoeff file needs to allow for heel of more than say 20 deg before you get any real dynamic from manual sheeting. You can actually induce negative (windward) heel with minus figures, but it always works negatively because the windward heel increases with wind and power (ie the harder it blows the more the boat heels to windward!).
The parameters for speed for any given sail, TWA, and windspeed are easy to edit, and it is possible to create any polar diagram fairly simply (though it is time consuming).
I think the best that can be done with dinghies is to get the graphics and polars right, and accept that there is a trade off between reducing heel and the sail trimming dynamics.
GBR13697